Transcript: "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in the PNW Wedding Industry"

This is a transcript for the panel “Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in the PNW Wedding Industry” as hosted in the PNW Wedding Pros room on Clubhouse at 10 a.m. PT Thursday 4/22.

The panel included:

  • Host: Becky Hart, she/her, of Event Crush in Eugene, Oregon.

Transcribed by: Otter.ai

Note: This is an imperfect transcript, for which I apologize. Halfway through there’s a gap where my recording equipment timed out and I didn’t notice. The grammar and punctuation is also hit or miss; I have cleaned it up wherever I felt it messed up the meaning of the audio. Please don’t hesitate to email me (elisabeth@elisabethkramer.com) if you have any questions, concerns, or feedback. I’m happy to share more about the conversation with you as, again, this is not a truly accessible way for you to be included.

Becky Hart: Today we are talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion in the Pacific Northwest of wedding industry, and I just think this is such an important conversation to have. I really want each of you to introduce yourself in your own words, I could kind of do a little overview on everyone but so many of you, you know, I just kind of met very recently as well so I would love to kind of go through and have you each introduce yourselves, I guess, before that I don't know if you don't know me, I’ll do a quick intro.

I’m Becky Hart, a wedding planner based in Eugene, Oregon. My business is Event Crush and we do planning and design as well spread tools, and I started the Pacific Northwest Wedding Pros Club here on Clubhouse back in, I think it was just back in March. It hasn't been very long, it’s still pretty new. But we started hosting rooms every Thursday at 10 a.m. right from beginning and we've just we've just done that ever since, so it's been super fun to connect with people and build community here in the Pacific Northwest, so. So yeah, so that's what this club is if you're not already a member of the club, make sure to push that little green house at the top and then you can join in there.

But yeah, that's a little bit about me and about the club but I would love to kind of just go into quarters so, so that you're the one who's kind of right there next to me and then we'll just kind of go then to Marcela and Jenna and then just down the line with you guys so if you are newer to clubhouse. Of course you would just click the little microphone to unmute yourself and then I would love to hear so who you are what you do, where you're from, I know a lot of us are in the Pacific Northwest, but I do think we have some representations of other parts of the country as well so please tell us where you are located. And then yeah just to share a little bit, and then I do have some questions for you as you know, we will definitely take some questions at the end of the room I would love to. If you guys can stick around to take a little bit of time to open it up for questions from the audience. So let's start with that go ahead, tell us a little bit about yourself. 

Elisabeth “Beth” Kramer: Hi everyone, my name is Elisabeth Kramer that I go by Beth, I know it's super confusing. My pronouns are she/her and I'm a wedding coordinator in Portland, Oregon, kind of the the elevator pitch about my work, my mission is to help change the wedding industry. Sometimes I use the shorthand Wedding Industrial Complex, which different people have different feelings about that but it's kind of my shorthand for all the nasty -isms that are in the wedding industry and in society at large but I think particularly concentrated in in the work that we do. A

And so I have kind of two arms to my business. One is couple-facing; I have clients on my books for this year and next year. I've been in business myself for five years. And then the other part of my business is vendor-facing so I have kind of a variety of different things I do; they’re all under this goal of changing the wedding industry. I have a podcast for wedding vendors called The Teardown. I do a lot of writing for vendors, and then probably most applicable to this conversation is I'm the co-founder of an event called Altared. 

It's an event for wedding vendors who want to change the wedding industry. It has really morphed and changed in the year and change that we've been around. But right now, Altared is hosting a bunch of paid partnerships with educators on the topics of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the wedding industry for the audience of wedding vendors so we have a couple more classes coming up for the year. We've done two already — one of our teachers, Taylor, is here today; she was our teacher in March. Our other teacher Crystal Whiteaker, is going to be talking about inherent bias next Tuesday. Unfortunately she had not unfortunately but she has an Android phone so couldn't join today but also has a lot of great information to share so anyway that's kind of me that these are the things that I do work with couples work with vendors, just to make the wedding industry a less gross place for everybody.

Becky: Of course, thank you so much and I do, I do think that I heard that Clubhouse is coming to Android very soon. Maybe next month so hopefully we'll be able to get people on here very soon. And Marcela, why don't you go?

Marcela Pulido: Hi everyone, I'm a wedding photographer in Portland, Oregon. I've been doing wedding photography since 2015, and originally I sort of just kind of wanting to do like elopement and being like, you know, yet another outdoorsy wedding photographer but over the past few years, Just being a Latina in the Pacific Northwest, I've started to focus more on just kind of showcasing diversity and just inclusivity and just a little bit more just to break up what we see generally for wedding photography in the Pacific Northwest. As of last year too, I helped found the Vendors of Color directory because it's one thing to showcase like a diverse group of couples and photography but another aspect of it is that I really wanted to see all the vendors of color in the Pacific Northwest getting hired and getting paid for the beautiful work that they do and I think that's just something really important that I love to see happening out there.

Becky: Definitely, I love it, I was just checking out the website for Vendors of Color and it's super cool so way to go, you've done a wonderful job with that. 

Marcela: Thank you.

Becky: All right next up we have Jenna.

Jenna Szyluk: Good morning, everyone. I am new to Clubhouse as well. I've been on here once or twice to listen, and yesterday it was my first time speaking so bear with me. I am the founder of Dash of Pride. We just launched a year ago so really new. It came from being kind of facing some discrimination as lesbian, getting married, You know I was told I couldn't get married at one venue and then just finding representation for wedding decor and everything was very limited. So I set out on a mission. And when I first started, I found that, you know, really the L and G part of our community is represented, and I'm really trying to push past that and the episodes of our entire LGBTQ +community.

We're starting with weddings and working really hard on giving representation and a site that where anyone can go and be seen and heard, but I'm also pushing the dialog with vendors to move away from the heteronormative language and working really with a lot of vendors to develop a vendor directory that is inclusive of everyone. And then I also started Dash of Pride champions, and those are individuals who are fighting every day for equality and they're really doing it through their Instagram feeds and their social media, and I'm trying to give face to the story of the people within our community who are out there doing the work and so that's kind of the work that I'm doing right now.

Becky:  Awesome, thank you, Jenna. It's amazing, the work that you're doing, and good dropper, you said yesterday was the first time that you spoke on the house so that's amazing. I was also going to tell you guys, for any of the moderators up here, cuz I know some of you guys are new to Clubhouse. If you want to like clap after somebody says something, obviously that's a little tricky but the little hand button on the bottom, or sorry on the hand the microphone button if you just like mute and unmute really quickly, like Taylor's doing, yes that's like clapping. So, so feel free to do that for out like if someone says something that speaks to you or anything like that, just go ahead and just, it's a nice little way to support everyone. Okay, well thank you, Jenna. Let’s go over to Marshella.

Maricela Ehmann: It’s “Mar-i-cela,” just to clarify. Really close to “Marcela,” just add an “i.”

Becky: Thank you!

Maricela: No problem. No problem. I’m an event planner out of Killington, Vermont, actually, so, I feel like it's almost a sister city to the PNW area. We have a similar demographic that I actually moved out here from California. About four years ago it was all complete change in the demographics that I was working in and population, the lack of diversity and such as.

About a year ago myself and two partner of mine — one which is in the room, I believe, Michelle, hi — we started a nonprofit, which is called the Wedding and Event Vendor Alliance. We are working to increase diversity inclusion in the wedding industry. We are brand new, meaning that we just launched in December. So we're still growing our fan base there, and our membership. We have a commitment for our members to commit and to self-educate when it comes down to anti-racism and inclusion in the industry. We've tried to provide the tools to be able to do that on your own because it does take that dedication and that commitment from an individual to create that change in our industry.

I'm also a mother of two and a very proud, first generation, Mexicana and try to really showcase that whenever I can. Thanks for having me.

Becky: Thank you so much. Yeah, I was just checking out your website as well and the vision behind what you're doing, it looks incredible. Alright, let's go over to Taylor.

Taylor de la Fuente: Hello friends, my name is Taylor doesn't one day, I am a website copywriter who specializes in the wedding industry so I am not a wedding vendor. I work alongside wedding vendors to help them grow their businesses, and sort of like a huge piece of that for me but it's not something I necessarily make money off of it's just more of a passion project is educating people on inclusive language so how can we use our words, one of the most powerful tools that we have to show couples that we welcome them, we want them and it doesn't matter what they look like. We want them to be part of their communities.

I'm based in Dallas, Texas. And other thing you should know about me is that I am an ally and in this conversation I am, other than being a woman. I am not part of any marginalized or repressive group, so I am white. Cis, I am straight, I am well-educated, all of the all of these things and so happy to be part of the conversation and help other people who maybe identify similarly with me realize that they have a place in these conversations.

Becky: Awesome, thank you so much Taylor, we're gonna go over to Rad and I'm going to let you pronounce your beautiful name for all of us because I do not want to miss somebody else's name.

Radhika “Rad” Graham: Thanks so much, Becky. My name is Radhika. I go by Rad. I am based in Victoria, BC, and I also co-host our podcast, “That's Rad,” with my husband, Rob. We have been doing the whole record a podcast thing for now, two seasons. We’re actually in the middle of our second season right now. And I've been in the wedding industry for close to a decade at this point, and started speaking out more about the topic that we're talking about today, actually, because of the catalyst of last year. I brought it up here and there but I felt like it was kind of getting pushed off to the side, maybe because people didn't want to acknowledge that it was an issue, specifically in the wedding industry, but it's definitely given me the courage to talk about it some more. People are more receptive to it and wanting to be allies, and change the industry that we're in for the better.

Becky: I love it. Thank you so much. And last but not least, we're going to go over to Rithy. Rithy, are you there? [pause] Okay, maybe she might not be here at the moment so we can definitely come back to her. 

Rithy Tamba: Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm popping in and out of here because I'm getting my tires rotated, and they're taking a lot longer so I can apologize for that. But I am a wedding photographer in Portland, and I have not co-founded anything, like the rest of you ladies but the reason why I am on here is because I actually messaged Becky just to ask if there was any Asian representation in this topic of inclusion and equality. She informed me that there wasn't so I wanted to just hop on here to be the voice for that community because I know we're just known to keep silence so I am here just to vocalize anything that I can, can add to the topic or be of any service in that category.

Becky: Thank you, Rithy, and I might have actually been wrong. So, can you guys… am I wrong? [pause]

Okay, I'm not sure, but I wasn't I just wanted to clarify I wasn't sure if anyone else was Asian at all so anyways, yeah. So otherwise, I'm really glad that you're here with me, so thank you so much for joining last minute, and thank you again all just for taking time out of your Thursday morning. I'm just grateful to you all for being here. So my goal today is to talk as little as possible. I really don't need to be speaking very much but I just, I'm just here to facilitate and basically ask questions so I do have a few questions that we're going to move on to. And so I guess, the place that I kind of wanted to start. And then I guess for the questions. I don't want to. I want everyone to feel like they can just jump in and answer any question at any time. It's going to be just kind of a popcorn thing.

You don't need to wait, you know, for me to call on you or anything like that, all you need to do is just unmute your mic, and then maybe just like double check and see if anyone else has unmuted their mic and if you see that somebody else unmuted before you let them go first or if you both do it at the same time which happens sometimes.

We can just kind of figure out who's going to go but I'm just going to let the conversation kind of flow, but we don't need to go in order, necessarily, if you just have an answer, just go ahead and unmute and answer the question. And then, it is helpful if you can say like, especially because not everyone is looking at their phones if you want to see like, this is Jenna, and then answer the question and when you're done speaking and say, this is Rithy and I'm done speaking just so that everyone knows, you know, when we can move on to the next person or for people who are just listening to know who's speaking I think is really helpful, and also probably for the transcript as well, because then it will know who's talking. So, so yeah, so the first question that I wanted to kind of jump into is just kind of defining these terms so I don't know if people have different definitions of diversity, different definitions of equity or inclusion so I thought if you guys don't mind if a couple of you want to just kind of tell me what those words mean to you and what do those.

Like what does inclusion look like and how do we, you know, how do we define equity, what does diversity mean in the wedding industry specifically. So whoever wants to jump in on that, just go ahead and unmute yourself and speak. I’m Becky and I'm done speaking.

Maricela: Hi, I’m Maricela. Diversity for me in the wedding industry illustrates that we respect and value, a diverse. Diverse life experiences inherited, and that we also ensure that all of those voices are valued and heard, as well as celebrated as well.

And then when it comes to the topic of inclusion, I feel like if we're inclusion, we just need to constantly be making a conscious effort to, you know, we're not all vendors are where they need to be in regards to inclusion, but many are, you know, they, they want to perform the effort they have.

They've done some soul-searching on their own, they might not necessarily know how to be more inclusive in their marketing and how they're outreaching to, to a full spectrum of clientele, but we need to just make sure that we're always constantly learning and providing that conscious effort in doing better, and, you know, pulling away from that heteronormative language that you see on a lot of our copies still, as an industry, and I'm done speaking.

Marcela: This is Marcela now. Just right after Maricela, but I wanted to kind of add on to that because I think equity in this form comes into like I feel, not enough vendors of color, kind of, I think the success that we see the white our white counterparts having and part of that is I really want us to find ways to kind of uplift our community and get those people hired so that we can kind of just get everyone paid and have them be more successful and getting them, like name recognition within the industry, particularly in these areas of the country where we are the minority where we're just outnumbered by all of our white counterparts out here.

Maricela: I agree with you, quite heavily on that equity side of things, because it does for me it does focus a lot on the vendor side. And, you know, taking a look at your preferred vendor lists, and whether or not they are pretty inclusive and they have a diverse group of individuals, you know, coming from myself, being from a very predominantly white state as a whole, not just an area but a whole state. You don't see diversity in vendor lists, or in, you know kind of the higher end things or with the hiring photographers and that sort of thing so conscious effort on that side of things is very important, and dismissed.

Marcela: I just want to add in real quick I was very excited to hear that, like, whatever it is. I'm sorry I forgot what it was called that you're working on in Vermont I really want to like look into that.

Beth: WEVA and they’re national.

Marcela: Amazing!

Jenna: Hi, this is Jenna speaking, I think for me inclusion is really trying to get the industry to change their language, and focus. It's hard for the LGBT community as you start looking into weddings because often we have to coming out as hard enough and then every time you go to a vendor, you're essentially coming out and I want to kind of help change that and that will be done through images on the website, images and your social media, the language that you use throughout your website so that we can see that you are allies that you are open and welcoming, and not just to the side, gender, lesbian and gay community but to our community on a whole. So that's what I really focus on and inclusion, as far as diversity as a white female, what I can do is, and what I'm trying to do is highlight, as you guys were saying the vendor directory really kind of get a broad vendor directory, reach out to the BIPOC community to get them within a vendor directory and then I do pilots of the vendors and to ensure that there is diversity amongst the vendors that I'm highlighting so that's what I'm trying to do to give a voice, and also through the Dash of Pride champions is to kind of get some diversity there and use that platform for people to use their voice as well, and I think it's important.

Rad: I wanted to add sorry this is Radhika speaking out but I don't know about the other communities that you're from, but in Victoria we specifically have four awards on Vancouver Island, as well as for the whole of BC. And right now what I'm trying to fight for in terms of equity and inclusion is ensuring that those awards. The board members as well as the judges are being. It's being considered that everybody comes from all walks of life all lifestyles all different parts, because I noticed that it's very quite heavy and I don't know if it's just because the island itself is doesn't have as many minorities. So, that is definitely been a focus with when it comes to equity.

And definitely whatever else has been saying in regards to the vendor list. One point I want to bring up and this has come up with another person that I have a conversation with in a conference, Jenny G and she brought up in her. She wants to make sure that like even though the vendors are diverse, sometimes a lot of the couples and like all of their guests are white, and she wants to make sure that when that happens, the vendors are not being considered, to help. So that's like another way to look at it and I never really thought about it that way, until she brought that up.

Taylor: Only thing to add is equity because I think that that gets lost and certainly confused a lot of times, I heard this once in college and it stuck with me all these years later. Equality is everybody gets a pair of shoes, an equity is everybody gets a pair of shoes that fit. It's a huge difference. And I think it's really important to remember that when you're considering, you know, diversity has to do with representation, who is even allowed in the room. Inclusion is who gets a seat at the table, and equity is, How do you offer them. When do you offer them that see all of those pieces so it's important to to consider about the how those three tailor-made items.

Beth: I just wanted to add two things and then I know Becky and probably some other questions you might want to ask but the first thing I as someone who approached many of the panelists here to join us today. I wanted to note that it was, it was an interesting challenge because there were some really big holes on this panel, and I didn't quite know how to address a lot of that so rather than list all the combinations I thought of I just wanted to say my inbox is always open for feedback both like, who was represented here who's not represented here people I should know about. So, you know, my email is just my first name but you see there Elisabeth at elisabethkramer.com 

So I just like to share that, and then the second thing I like wanted to say was, I have a friend and fellow wedding planner in Texas named Jordan Maney with Love All the Days who has this great term that she uses a lot called 'well-meaning white people,’ and it's a term that myself as a white person often identify within the sense that I don't want to be it, and I bring it up here because I think a lot of my work around diversity and inclusion is, I don't want it to. I don't want people to default I don't particularly want people like me to default to what is easy because these things are easy because of systems that are in place that make it easy, right? And so a lot of education that I try and create a lot of opportunities that I just try and create in the world is to make conversations like this happen so that while many white people can actually do the work.

And so I bring that up because I think sometimes the words diversity inclusion, equity, can they can scare white people, they can scare other people too, I'm sure, but from my experiences as a white person, and I think it's easy to bounce off of them and then you don't do the work and nothing changes. And I'm not saying that's appropriate or acceptable — it is not — but words that I use sometimes are friendship and safety because I think those are words that people can identify with sometimes. 

What does friendship look like? What does it look like to have a friend? What does it look like to make other people feel safe? I think the conversation around wedding vendors as well as the help is very interesting particularly right now during COVID. What is our safety look like? Why does our safety matter? So those are just words that I also use often in relation to these conversations because I, I like to think anyone, you know, whoever you are, You know what a friend looks like you know what safety looks like you know what the Golden Rule looks like right treat others how you would want to be treated so I add that, of course I'm open to feedback on it but there are words that I like to use as well.

Thank you so much, Beth and for everyone who has answered this question so far I see we have just come up here so did you want to enter this question on kind of defining these terms as well.

Audience member (Chas): My name is Chas, I am a florist here in Portland, Oregon, again, and I had a question specifically to Marcela, Maricela, Rithy, Rad on the stage. So I am biracial, and I'm half Black, half white in the winter time, I have a light color. It would be hard to tell that I'm Black. And so I always just wonder, how can I make people aware, either in my Instagram through my photos through the language I use on my website. I was wondering if any of you have any input or advice as to how you make people aware and also how you give them the green light to share you as a minority in the wedding industry.

Rad: That's a great question. I’m Indian. I also get very white. During the winter, and I essentially have made it a real big point to bring out my culture, consistently through my Instagram, will also be try not to shy away from my culture when my husband and I have a wedding ourselves and we've plastered those pictures everywhere, because he's white actually, and he's actually very proud of, like the fact that I want to identify with my culture and bring it up in, definitely, any place that I can, because I feel like a lot of the times, India — specifically people from Punjab — so there seems to be a stereotype around them, be it, taxi drivers or Bhangra, or just the Bollywood movies. So I try as much as possible through all of our podcasts or Instagram, to bring it to light and make people aware, who they're working with.

Maricela: Same as Rad, I do also very freely share some of my culture, some of my background history on my social media and through blogs. I did a blog post on Dia de los Muertos and shared some information there and the meaning behind it. So just being vocal about your cultural background, who you are, where you stand with some of the racial issues that are in place now as well.

Like, really important to vocalize and really aligning. I feel it's like an alignment of your personal beliefs and values and with your business practices, and just marrying — pun intended — that aspect of it and vocalizing for access.

Marcela: Chas, thank you for that question. I think that's, that's a very real thing, especially just living in Portland for me as like, originally a California and having moved to Portland and the pandemic doesn't help during the winter either this is definitely the most pale I've ever been.

But when it comes down to it, I think, kind of echoing what Maricela said is just, I I'm very vocal about me being Mexican, being a Chicana in the Pacific Northwest. Even just like putting it in my bio on Instagram, even something as simple as that is kind of a good start, definitely. I've done everything I can out of here to kind of help embrace my culture, just focusing on like some style sheets, working with other like Latinos within the community, and just really kind of trying to showcase that a little bit better yet, definitely just being vocal.

Rithy: I appreciate your question. I’m 100 percent Asian so there's no way of hiding these chinky eyes. The way that I try and showcase my culture is being comfortable with them first because as a Cambodian Chinese Cambodian is still very like a third world country, it's not. I mean, tourism is definitely better but it's not a luxury, so when I participate in different shoots and everything I do try and bring in a lot of Asian vendors because I feel that I don't see them a lot at all. I've heard that cultural weddings, Cambodian weddings being as vibrant and beautiful and this is not a luxury, it's not ideal. It's about showcase. So I started to change my mindset and that I do have a culture to be proud of. I've always been proud of him growing up and coming into the wedding industry it's just silent. So any chance that I get, I do showcase my friends Cambodian wedding like the food that we eat just anything that I can share with the world, I will share on my social media, got to be honest recently became proud of it and not scared to do that.

Audience member (Saroj): Hi everyone, I just want to put my two cents in here, first of all thank you for having this talk, it's awesome that people are doing this, Chas like just was looking at your Instagram page it's beautiful but I also hopes that there's no images of yourself on there so maybe just starting there with a picture of yourself and introducing yourself on what your beliefs are and, you know, maybe a little bit about your background and I think that would be a good start, just to inform people of what your background is what you do, where you're from, where you're going, all that kind of stuff.

Jenna: Becky, I know you have some other questions but I kind of want to keep going with this a little bit and ask another question. As a white vendor, how with issues that are going on in our world, how can we be supportive because I find that when things happen, a lot of people will just repost other people's stuff in their stories and I don't know if that's authentic and, or, I just sometimes am kind of loss and how to be supportive in the issues that are happening every day, and I want to look to the other vendors in here and ask: What can we do to be supportive and is it okay to just be reposting quotes from other people within the stories of Instagram and stuff like that? 

Marcela: I think the social media aspect or the sharing, I think it's a really interesting conversation. There's nothing necessarily wrong with sharing it, especially with a lot of the people creating those infographics, I think, are people of color. And I think in a sense that's another way of amplifying the voices, which is definitely not a bad thing. I think the only time that it really becomes a problem and feels performative is when people are really not doing anything in their day to day life to kind of help support in some way.

And I think it's, it can be something even as small as just kind of going out of your way to support a business that is not white. That can be beneficial to to them in some way. I think it doesn't have to necessarily be a big thing. If you have the capacity to do something bigger — to protest, to donate to organizations — I think that's amazing but I think even just going so far as to amplify particular voices and doing small everyday things to kind of help support the community I think that should be enough. 

Beth: You know, Jenna, I think about this as a lot as a white person, as a white woman. And the thing that I default to a lot is I show my work. So, that is to keep myself accountable and of course also I hope addresses things like Marcela was just saying about also showing that it's not a one and done thing right it's not kind of the infamous example in our industry in the past year has been posting a black square and then walking away, right? So, one of the ways I show my work. I have an anti-racist plan on my site, I have an icon in the footer of my website. I have a couple that are for different organizations and if you click that, it'll go to my anti-racist plan which honestly that plan is more of a live blog these days, which is a little messy for my Virgo wedding planner soul but it's what I do, so anytime I do something that I feel is in the topics of diversity, inclusion, equity, friendship, safety. I recorded there. It's a bit of a brain dump. It's not as searchable as I would like, but it's something that I kind of, I keep myself accountable because what I don't want is to look up on June 19 of this year and be like, ‘Oh wait, I was supposed to be doing somethings right?’ I don't want that for myself. I want to be I want to be better than that I want to challenge myself to be better than that so you know that's not exactly a specific action item for your own work, but it's something that is that I do for myself and that I, because I don't want to, I don't want to slip back right I don't want to get lazy or complacent So showing my work is my big thing.

Chas: I would love to jump in here before I sadly have to go this has been such a great conversation but my two pieces of advice would be if you're going to share those infographics on your Instagram Stories, etc. It's super appreciated if you go back to the original source, which is usually a person of color, and post it from their, you know, their original post. I feel is like so meaningful to me, and then also to be really careful and mindful when you set up automatic post to post and I know everyone's trying to be like really conscious of their time.

And so they scheduled things in advance.To me there's been so many major events especially in this last year, that, you know, something gets posted that is super celebratory in a moment that it's like, were you aware of what happened today in the Black community specifically you know so I would just ask people to be mindful of something like that.

Rad: One comment I want to I want to add is, when sharing those infographics or posts. It would also be really great to tag the person who created it, because if you share it, then they don't get any credit necessarily unless you tag them. Another thing too is if you want to go ahead and post your own opinion. Do it. I really encourage people to do that and understand that like it's gonna be imperfect but at least you're showing up for what you believe in.

Becky: This has been such a great conversation so far so thank you, just for all the insight you guys have been sharing Jenna, I love your question that you just asked. We’ve got some people up here that I wanted to get to, I don't know if they have questions or just wanting to join in on what was already being said, so I'm going to go to them next and then after that all, I'll keep going but I, I love just like conversation that's flowing so I don't want to interrupt you know that's why I'm just listening because I just love the conversation that's happening, but I'm going to jump to a Rachel right now. Please introduce yourself.

[gap of 10 to 15 seconds as Beth scrambled to get her credit card and pay for more time on Otter. To summarize what was said, Rachel of Everglow Handmade introduced herself from the audience.]

Rachel: I think something I just wanted to say like, in terms of saying like, like have like the like I am like a BIPOC person in this space.

I meant Chas at a meet-and-greet, and then like I was like, I think she's like, half-Black, I don't know I have no idea. And then, like, a couple months later she like messaged me and she was like, I don't know are you Japanese or like what are you as I guess I'm Japanese and I was like, are you like half-Black and she’s like yes, and then it was just like super, like, it was like kind of like awkward like treading those waters. 

I just like want like normalize that you like, you know like, that is something that was helpful for me to like say to her and like hear from her and like if we're just like, you know, I don't know if I'm sure there's like a wrong way to do it but I liked it and I appreciate the conversation I feel like just normally those kind of conversations were amongst each other and like, I just feel like this is just great like this term that the industry is like taking this year and we can just keep this like momentum and like make it a part of our businesses and like what we're doing, I feel like I feel like it's like really great and I'm just like, really encouraged so that is all I have to say.

Beth: Fun fact: Rachel and I went to high school and now we're both in the wedding industry. I just it's so interesting you mentioned that because I wanted I had an experience this morning of I'm working on an Instagram post for Altared and I'm including an ID caption to try and make it somewhat more accessible. And there's a photo of someone and I didn't know how they identify. I didn't want to assume I tried Googling and I wasn't sure what to do so eventually I just took back to basics and just asked, you know, and it felt awkward and I was super worried about being offensive. But I said, ‘How do you like to identify? And this is why I'm asking. You can share as much or as little as you want,’ and the conversation by, you know, reading emojis, I mean we didn't have an in person like it sounds like you did, but it was very pleasant, you know, and I share that because I think sometimes white people like myself are afraid to ask because we're so worried about coming off as racist, and that is should definitely be a fear that is paramount because you never want to hurt anyone, but I also think if I hadn’t asked and I had just guessed or worse, or worse white-washed or made an assumption that would have been more painful because if someone had done that to me that would have hurt me so just when you're talking Rachel that came to mind that I thought might be a very applicable example because Instagram and wedding vendors.

Rachel: Totally, I think I. So, my train of thought, I think, like asking, like, it feels so awkward and like so for us it's like I think like yeah, do your due diligence like look it up like Like if they have anything in their email or on their website, but like when you ask, even though it's awkward and like puts the ball in that person's court and like when people ask me like, I feel so seen, and like so, like you know like just recognize and like that a lot just in itself. So, I would say like, if you have any questions about that like my just speaking for myself, and I don't know. I guess I would love to hear what other people see but like, I appreciate just like being straight up, ask the questions so, good job.

Marcela: I just want to add on to that I definitely think it depends on the situation and what the circumstances are, and if there's like a connection to the person. I'm just speaking as someone who like for a period of time, was asked by complete strangers while walking the dog just like, hey wait, where are you from California, where are you from, do you have to have this conversation because in those situations, it made me feel very other, but it's definitely, it's definitely a different circumstance when it's like someone that you're trying to connect with and trying to understand better, but if they offer up themselves in some way I think that's definitely the best way to go but I think just having some sort of connection, and not just asking a complete stranger like right off the bat.

Audience member (Kai): I'm a photographer based in Portland, Oregon and actually Marcela is a very dear, dear friend of mine so I'm stoked to see her in this group.

I wanted to touch on what Jenna mentioned around sort of posting about social justice issues, on Instagram, I think, what is a really important reminder for myself, and I think for a lot of white allies who are now engaging in these conversations is to remember to do the work when no one is watching. And in 2020, I think, white people in particular were given an opportunity to show up in the conversations around Black Lives Matter and social justice issues through social media platforms. And while those are incredible ways to start the conversation. It's important to remember to step back from those platforms and continue to do that work, when no one's watching that can look like showing up for local social justice rallies or meetings, paying reparations and doing that, outside of the context of sharing stuff on social media, and I think when you include that work, you start to show up as a more complete ally as opposed to a performative one.

Becky: The next question that I had was, and maybe we'll just kind of do this one quickly and then because I think the third one will be an important one. So my second question was just kind of getting a feel for, like, how do you feel the state of the wedding industry is right now, like, in the, in the Pacific Northwest specifically like do you feel like you know you've seen improvements do you I guess I'm just curious, like what do you think is good if anything are and what's not so good and how.

Marcela: I think one of the things that I was really excited to start seeing I think it was in 2018, was when Hakeem and Jasmine started the whole hashtag #changetheweddingindustry. And I think that was just already the beginning, it's such a cool thing to kind of start seeing some diversity within the photography that we're seeing. But I think, more recently, what I've been saying is, people really actively trying to support me and trying to hire more veterans of color, and really just try to get money within that community and support really amazing professionals who deserve all the success and all the great things coming their way.

And I definitely would like the Vendors of Color directory, definitely gotten a handful of messages from couples and clients just kind of appreciating, having that resource and being able to give back to the community and having a resource for the teachers to filter through and find people that they want for so many different things it's just been really cool to see people are in a position now where they're thinking about it and wanting to do something differently, especially just in the Pacific Northwest, so it'd be such such a white part of the country. I think it's really cool to see people actively trying to make a change.

Rad: And I want to say, over this past year, we have had a lot of couples who have instead of asking for gifts have asked people to donate to charitable causes, such as the, I think it's the acronym is BLAC (Black Legal Action Centre) here in Canada. And actually, they don't even issue tax receipts I think because they're not fully recognized yet. Not for profit so it's not even a performative action someone's doing. So I think that has been a really positive change, especially for couples who don't need it, because they already live together.

Another thing that I've seen is that this topic is, it's not so awkward anymore to talk about, they felt like it was really awkward and they would get super sweaty and like just feel like I was talking, like, out of place about all this, all of this because of the community here in Victoria be more white than with minorities, that's definitely been a plus.

Taylor: So I've been doing this work since 2019 and I started my business in March of that year, and I've said this to Beth in the past because of 2020 and all of the racial unrest and social justice movements. I've noticed that I have to push the conversation less like people are more interested and more willing to have the conversation, versus before 2020 I was having to tell people like we should be talking about this and here's why. And now I have found that all of these global, global movements have given enough traction that people no longer need to be convinced, why and we just need a platform for it but I will also say, and maybe this is just my own personal experience, but I do think white people speaking as a white person myself feel like they want to ask questions like you did Jenna about what can I do, but they also recognize that by asking that to a person of color or an LGBTQ+ person or a disabled person they're putting to work on that person and they're conscious of that and are scared to ask because they don't want to put that emotional labor and, you know, really hurt on those people and I totally agree with that, too. It depends on how, like if somebody is going to be on this panel for example I think they're volunteering, ‘Hey, asked me I want to tell you what to do or help you with it' versus I wouldn't ask like a total stranger who hasn't volunteered for it. Anyways, I'm saying this as, you know somebody who is doing this work speaking about this teaching about this, and who is white, I feel like I get a lot of white people, who asked me, What do I do, because they feel like I'm not doing emotional labor because it is it me so it's like okay to ask me what to do and I found that happen a lot, and I don't know if that's other white people's experience as well or other people of colors experience where you're, you're getting those questions too but I get it a lot.

Jenna: One thing that I've tried to do is, I think it is trying to navigate who to ask the questions because you do not want you know I have very good friends who have an awesome friend that is identifies as Black, and I asked her a lot of questions but it's been funny because she just recently came out so I get to be her like question for LGBTQ questions so we kind of like bounce off of each other.

And you have to find those people that you've asked questions and I know I'm asking a lot of the BIPOC community. So, as a member of the LGBTQ community. I'm putting myself out there and I'm okay answering the questions and I will do the work and be the representative because someone recently said to me well that's got to be emotional why you taking all that on and I said, you know, because it's important. Somebody has to and I'm okay answering any questions about the LGBTQ community, because I am trying to navigate the BIPOC community and learn so much and re, re learn or educate myself on what I was bringing out in the world that I was raised in really kind of understand what's going on in our world. So, I'm willing to take on the inclusion part of the LGBTQ community and I look to people within the community to partner with me and help, and I appreciate everybody that's on here that has been answering the questions, and it all makes sense to me.

Beth: What I was just going to add this as best speaking, I will get good at that, eventually, I promise. What I was just going to add was, you know, at the top of a call we kind of talked about the same, the Wedding Industrial Complex and what I think is interesting and I've had a lot of opportunity in the last year to see this manifest is, You know the Wedding Industrial Complex, the shit is everywhere, right I mean I talk to people internationally these days who find me or find altered. And one of the nasty heads of this hydra is definitely prominent for them. And I think you know, Becky would have asked specifically about the wedding industry in the Pacific Northwest. What is interesting to me as someone born and raised in Pacific Northwest, is that I think it's very easy to hide behind the veneer of progressive. This is something that I struggle with a lot is, you know, I, I think sometimes that's the default right well I live in a progressive part of the country whatever progressive might mean for you so that must mean it's better here, quote unquote, that's not true, right, it's not true, and I talked to people in other parts of the country who have a different struggle right, you know, vendors who I talked to in the south, may be navigating, do I work at venues that are historically plantations right this is something that comes up a lot in our community.

While other vendors who live in other areas of the country I talked to are like I feel like I'm the only one who is very vocal in my community that gay couples are safe with me. The point of all this I just like to say is that, this shit is everywhere and that's why we've got Altared and the Rad Wedding Vendors Slack just trying to create space where people can talk to each other and kind of compare notes and share notes because I think it's much easier to do this work however this work looks for you. If you have friends, if you have buddies if you have co workers, you, they both keep you accountable but they also can share strategies, they have different lived experiences from you obviously that that are so valuable as Jenna touched on. So, both thinking locally but also nationally, internationally. This is a much bigger problem, right, so we're going to need everybody to get there.

Becky: Yeah, so true. Yeah, it is encouraging, like I've encouraged listening to you all kind of share some of the movement towards. I guess just yeah just moving in the right direction, So I'm encouraged to hear those things. And, but you're right that I mean it is everywhere. It's definitely not just our part of the country. And so, yeah, but it's it's amazing listening to you guys and just all the work that you're doing and, and I don't even know if you like, that the did you share about your podcast in the beginning I mean, you all have like these music, podcasts and workshops and everything, so I didn't want to say before because I know some people might have to go with please, if you guys are here right now make sure that you click on everyone's face that's up here, all of our panelists, and give them a follow up to your Clubhouse and then you can click right over to their Instagram profile, better at something they said resonated with you, definitely reach out and connect with us directly, I would love to see that. And yeah, so I'm going to jump into our next question, and we'll take it from there so I kind of for a second.

So the question I was gonna ask is what are some specific and tangible ways that we as wedding professionals can work towards an industry with more diversity inclusion and equity and I know we've kind of been talking about this all along but if there's anything kind of specific that comes to mind that you would like to share, please do and if anyone in the audience wants to jump up and answer this as well.

Maricela: So something that we can do to make things more diverse equitable and inclusive and it's just, For me it's, it's the basic word, or what seems like the basic action. So, actionable methods to move forward here so whether it is taking action, and going through your website copy, making sure that you're inclusive in your language that you're inclusive in your contact forms in the way that you would dress or talk about that at the events in your area, or as a whole, action, again, taking steps to learn for yourself, to look into yourself and see what may be laying there from the way that can raise, because, you know all of this is deeply embedded in all of us, even you know for myself I live in the United States, I will still have been here, and there are certain things are not.

How do we say certain things, as, as we grow up, there was some biases around the LGBTQIA community that stems from culturally from my backgrounds that you have to learn to grow. So, those are action steps action steps into making connections with other individuals of diverse. Diverse backgrounds who identify differently as you do these vendor other vendors that you may have normally had connections with but just doing some outreach, and you know when you might get an email or a direct response but we're almost ghosted anyway. So just move on to the next individual making those two connections. So it's all about action.

Beth: Hi, this is Beth and I think framing it sometimes from the place of, I think there's a real fear, particularly because we're all online all the time of being called out, right. So, I think trying to reframe that from being called up rather than call it out I wish I could remember where I first encountered that term but somewhere on the internet from someone much wiser than I. So, I'm just thinking about it from that way. You know for myself and I'll say it again. I remain always open to feedback, you know, and that can be very challenging it'd be hard to hold space for that and of course it's, I think, often I default to wanting to be defensive right well I tried to explain myself and all my contacts, and I'm really challenging myself to realize that a lot of the times that context doesn't matter and it doesn't matter to what the actual conversation is about right and so respecting Maricela just talked about it but if you send an email and you don't get a reply I respect that right, just as you would want that person to perspective for you so both of those things I can't they're they're a little bit more, a philosophy rather than like a specific tangible thing but I think that can be a mindset that actually can encourage someone to take action because it removes that fear right that fear that I'm gonna, I don't know be blasted online and I don't know, dissolve into a puddle or whatever the fear is I shouldn't minimize it, it's a very real, real fear but, yeah, just thinking about it that way.

Jenna: I’m gonna jump in and I'm gonna focus more on inclusivity and what is something tangible is just. And I think Maricela spoke on this is language for me is huge. Don't assume someone's a bride and assume, even if they're femme presenting and a part of the LGBT community, it doesn't mean that they identify as a bride. There are so many other words that we use in this industry or business community to identify through the wedding process. an easy, simple thing to show that you're inclusive right off the bat for humanity is your product. Next year, he came on your social media platform in your signature. And I think, you know, really dive in to your website and your social media, don't just slap the rainbow on there that can be offensive.

Rainbow on there, you know, your intake form says bride or groom. You know, there's so many little things that we can do so to do a real look at how we're presenting ourselves I think is really important through language. Putting pronouns next to your name can immediately be an identifier for someone to know whether you're to ally or not.

Kai: This is Kai and I wanted to touch briefly on other people Elisabeth was talking about around.

I think fear that white allies have been exploring racism anti oppression work, and something that I'm constantly trying to remember myself is that depending on where you are in that journey, learning how to be anti racist is really messy and complicated work. And through that process, you will mess up, like inevitable you will end up at work too, you will misgender someone will post something that seems insensitive, and what I believe is that, even in the most intense call out, or calling situations. It is our job and we have the ability to navigate critiques with grace and understanding, and that setting up setting ourselves up with the expectation knowing that we will fail at times. I think allows us to become less defensive and less worried about the critique when we know that we are growing and learning, learning beings, doing this work is important enough to, to do this work is important enough that when do you see that critique and feedback that that won't stop us from moving the needle forward.

Audience member (Stefanie): Yes, thank you. My name is Stefanie and my wedding planner in the Seattle area really a team up here and then it was what I wanted to say, has already been touched on, and has been there so it really is about language.

One of my huge pet peeves right now is bride, bride, bride, bride, bride everywhere, so I just wanted to mirror what has already been said and making sure that we're using inclusive language. I think earlier you know we consider Seattle and Portland and the Pacific Northwest to be these progressive areas but I see it all the time, every day, bride-centric language by people who wouldn't otherwise think that they are, you know, woke and were still using what I feel like the super antiquated language and their websites and when they were, you know, talking probably. So I just to hear what everyone else was saying that's the first thing that came to mind is just really do an audit of the language that you're using on all the platforms on the website and in everyday conversation because I feel like even if you go through without a website, and try to be conscious of it. I still feel, I still he'll appear people in real time, and in conversations just you're very adapt to saying bright as they're talking in general. So it really is being conscious of a shift like it's, it's a, it's a full body purpose to shift around inclusivity and the language in general. And I think that that's this actionable item that needs just continue to be worked on in that community so that's all I have to say.

Beth: Just because Taylor's not here I gotta I gotta plug her. So Taylor, her whole focus is inclusive language and she specifically worked with wedding vendors, and I know this book because I'm a former journalist and I love word, folks, but also because that was what her class was about for Altared and march was inclusive language so if you're listening to this and you're like, Where do I even start. Why, you know what, I have questions Lemon Tree Editorial is the name of her business lteditorial.com. I don't get any type of kickback I just, she has been a great resource for myself but I know many other vendors who have all types of questions around inclusive language.

Rad: This is right, and I wanted to just add that all the inclusivity. I think there is also a danger of like tokenism. People are using either LGBT couples or couples, just for their cell sheets, in order to attract that kind of people but not doing the actual behind the scenes, day to day work like ours, our product previously. So that's certainly something to step back and be aware of. And I also want to just point out some other resources. I know we talked a lot about action. I know Rachel Cordaro has like a by donation through her Patreon program, and Nova Reid also has a few programs as well. And then, Beth and Altared have great programs that come up every month, which I think is fantastic as well. This is Rebecca.

Marcela: I want to add on to the point that Rad made that f you're doing a style shoot and you're trying to bring focus to a particular culture or bringing across like bring on like a particular couple of Asian or Mexican or Black or whatever it might just also be beneficial to make sure that you have vendors of the same background as part of your team to kind of best represent the culture and in a way that you are speaking towards like as a white person possibly here, whoever is trying to do this. Just bring some inclusivity to the team as well.

Maricela: When doing style shoots as well as models of color for that identify as LGBTQIA, make sure to pay them. It is very important to pay your models. It's not an exchange of services. I’m a really, really strong advocate of this.

Jenna: If you are going to do a photo shoot to represent the LGBTQ community, please don't have two straight women modeling and trying to act as a lesbian couple, as a huge no. We can tell. There’s plenty of people out there that would be willing to model so just reach out to the community and find the true models within that community to go a little further.

It's okay to mess up, it's okay to mess up and call someone a bride or assume it but if they correct you,  please, moving forward, use the correct language that they've corrected you on if they've corrected you on their pronouns, use their correct pronouns, and it's okay. I mess up pronouns all the time. I'm terrible with them. And I have a non-binary 8-year-old who is teaching me all about how to use pronouns and I'm still terrible at it so it's not that I'm not accepting or understanding into this language is very difficult for me, and I haven't been making the switch. So it's okay to not be too hard on yourself but when you make a mistake, except that you've made a mistake and try your best, or with correct language.

Becky: Does anyone else have any, any other tips or anything on this. The only other question that I had it ties in with this but it was just specifically for like social media or websites I mean I feel like language, obviously works like partner or what have you. Are there any other things that come to mind for like our online presence, specifically, that we can do?

Stefanie: I had a thought and maybe this is not necessarily something that I've seen, specifically done like wedding pros but just like business owners and small businesses in general. A lot of what I was seeing last year, especially at the height of protests and awareness and and everything. This is trying to incorporate that into a business strategy. Like literally seeing companies have a Juneteenth sale.

And so I think it feels like exploitation is just like history I think if you're going to try to connect into yourself as a supportive business. Think really about what that looks like think about doing it in a, in a real true genuine supportive manner, not performative not exploitative. I just think that I see this happen in businesses and I and I have seen some of it show up in some ways, and social media in the wedding industry, where people are trying to address that there's, you know, there there are racial tensions that there are things happening but they just don't know the right way to do it, and it comes off as really cringy and not, it doesn't come supportive and positive and then the right way so I would say, however you choose to show up for, you know, as a business in support of whatever cause or whatever community maybe just catch yourself that you're doing that in a way that is actually not exploitative not using it for your own like, It's not about you. It's about the community. I not really communicating, everything I want to say about this properly in the right way. The guy would say being genuine in all of your efforts, whatever it is, as being supportive being in them, you know, being an ally is, is probably the first place to start. Be just true and genuine and not make it about you make it about you know actually wanting to support the community and come to a good place.

Rad: I wanted to add one thing that I feel like needs to be changed with the wedding feature accounts that really large wedding feature accounts on air. A lot of them are really focused on your heterosexual white couple, and a lot of the times, they're very skinny.

And like that isn't, most of our proposals out there, and I know that there's a lot of niche feature accounts and things that are there for the LGBTQ and the BIPOC community, but I think we need to put some more pressure on these major feature accounts to actually showcase the world that's out there, and not just what they've made the ideal in the wedding industry, however long ago.

A good example of that is Rocky Mountain Bride. I had a messaging conversation with them on Instagram about how I noticed that their page is very, very performative because every once in a while you have a Black, a Black and white couple. They didn't seem to have any LGBTQ or any other cultures. 

They told me that they were being inclusive. They sent me their pledge, but they only reposting, a lot of really like what they called ‘diverse couples’ on their blog, which was almost like hiding it, like it wasn't like front and center entered in, I noticed that they didn't take responsibility for it, they were more taking this idea or this is what our community today does. And I thought that was really a poor taste, but I want to bring this up specifically not to throw anybody under the bus or cancel them, but to show that this is an area of growth that we still need within the community.

Audience member (Jen): I just want to say I really appreciate that these rooms still keep going because we all need this and we all need to connect on a deeper level and really understand each other. And you know I'm in the wedding industry so I'm always learning and growing actually I'm stepping back into the wedding industry with a new brand so yeah just wanted to say thank you for a great room.

Becky: Okay, well, I just want to kind of see if there's any last words that anybody would like to share before we close out the room. We are yeah it's 11:23 right now so I think we will get ready to close it out. If anyone has just any kind of last words that you'd like to share, we would all love to hear that. So I'll give a chance for that, and then we'll go ahead and move up to the spiffy and I've been speaking.

Kai: I just wanted to chime in about inclusivity and diversity in the Northwest community as well. I think another important thing is to remember and be open to the idea that sometimes we even as white allies might not be the best vendor for certain couples. I had an inquiry the other day from this couple of where the groom was Nigerian, and the last one with their sentence was, 'We are so excited to fill our wedding with Black and brown vendors and we love your work,’ and I absolutely love that sentiment. I'm so incredibly excited that that's how they're prioritizing your wedding. And I also felt like it was really important for me in my response to be like, I'm so glad you love my work and I want to make sure that the 100 person clear that I am a white-passing Japanese-American vendor and that being transparent with that information allows them to make an informed decision especially if their vision is supporting Black and brown vendors, I want to be able to uplift that vision to the fullest.